Subject: Re: About stat system..
From: Atte Koivula (yorkaturr@majik3d.org)
Date: Wed Nov 24 1999 - 08:49:48 EET
> See part of the problem ?? i think those stast that we have proposed for > majik simply SUCK ASS, surely we can come up with better ones. EXCUSE ME but you were the one who was initially responsible for these stats anyway, don't yell at me :) > We have to make a difference between a virtuous quality and a stat. > a thing like appearance is a virtuous quality or a nasty flaw. NOT a damn > stat. Also a thing like sturdiness had got nothing to do with stat, > shields and stones have sturdiness. Uh? Sturdiness was your idea also, and you were the only person who defended that stat back in Majik3... > I know i was designing those sucky stats once, but only because everyone > seemed to want them so much. Now im trying to force us to invent better > models, since those really do suck. Ah good. Well, Dexterity and Agility at least a two totally different things. I do not want us to lose ANY accuracy by combining stats. > We also have to make a difference between stats and skill, stats and > abilities. etc.. something like "war skill" can't be a stat. Of course not. > I would like to see a system that ressembles more GURPS than ad&d, since > gurps really is a way way better and realistic game system. I do not know GURPS' system, the best I've seen is in Rolemaster. > In gurps there is only 4 stats : strenght, dexterity, IQ and health. > things like appearance, willpower, intuition, charisma, leadership, etc.. > are advantages/disadvantages abilities and skills. > That kind of system works really really well and is in good balance. 4 stats? Sounds like forced simplicity to me. Remember that the same stats must apply to all creatures, be it player races, monsters or animals. No exceptions here. > The next possible solution would be like the system in storytelling games. > they have: strenght, dexterity, stamina, charisma, manipulation, > appearance, preception, intelligence and wits Dexterity == Manipulation Intelligence == Wits Strength == Stamina Appearance == Charisma > Then the model in Ars Magica, the art of magic. In that game they have : > intelligence, perception, strenght, stamina, presence, communication, > dexterity and quickness. Quickness sounds like a good stat to me. Presence? > Psyche - all that is mental, willpower, wits, intelligence, perception, > manipulation, intuition etc.. The level of mental power and > reserves that creature has in use at the max. > mental strenght, force of will. Mental agility and skill, > precision.. Meep. Mathematical intelligence is totally separated from willpower, perception and intuition, in fact it is often quite the opposite. I haven't met, and do not know of, a single able philosopher or religious fanatic who was mathematically talented. > Strenght - all that is brute force, sturdiness, ability to resist damage, > toughness etc.. The level of physical power and reservers > that creature has in use at the max Good. > Endurance - all that is fitness, health, recovery rate, stamina, abilility > to heal, the power supply that runs that creature, > the level of recovery and general power supply the creature > has in use in the end. Good. > warfare - all that is reflexes, quickness, agility, dexterity, > cordination and balance etc.. Also part of the combat intuition > and how well the creature participates tactics and strategy. > the creatures 'knack' for tactics and stragety and combat. > also military leadership and psychology of war. This approach is confusing. The stats are not supposed describe things such as "combat capability", remember that we do not place great emphasis on combat and by all means, how well a creature can fight cannot be described as one of it's most important abilities. To specify, a stat is an inherited, natural ability that describes potential instead of a concrete application, and what is warfare if not a concrete application, a combination of physical and metal talent that is applied to a combat situation. Incoherent, highly incoherent, and completely inacceptable to our system. > So.. lets kick those old majik stats to the hell house and start using > those 4 stats, maybe with more proper names, if we want to. What is the difference between a lion and a tiger that weigh equally in that system? -- _/_ /Atte "Yorkaturr" Koivula <yorkaturr@majik3d.org>
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