About stat system..

Subject: About stat system..
From: Taneli Niko Tikka (ttikka@icon.fi)
Date: Wed Nov 24 1999 - 05:18:06 EET

On Thu, 18 Nov 1999, Atte Koivula wrote:

First on the idea that races should have racial stats and individuals a
stat that say how good is that one person inside a certain race. A nice
idea, that could be done so. but but...

> The stats of Majik are as follows:
> o Strength (STR)
> o Dexterity (DEX)
> o Sturdiness (STU)
> o Constitution (CON)
> o Agility (AGI)
> o Intelligence (INT)
> o Wisdom (WIS)
> o Willpower (POW)
> o Charisma (CHA)

It's these stats that i dont like one bit. They are totally out of
balance, meaning that they have a different weight on them. Sturdiness and
charisma should not even be there. And those stats are quite a straight
copy from AD&D

In AD&D it goes as follows : 

Presented in the form of : main stat, and the substats
And majik stats presented inside () marks

 - stamina (majik: constitution)
 - muscle power (majik: strenght)
 - aim cordination (majik: dexterity)
 - balance (majik: agility)
 - health (majik: constitution)
 - fitness (majik: sturdiness)
 - reasoning (majik: intelligence)
 - knowledge
 - intuition (majik: wisdom)
 - willpower
 - leadership (majik: charisma)
 - appearance

See part of the problem ?? i think those stast that we have proposed for
majik simply SUCK ASS, surely we can come up with better ones. 

We have to make a difference between a virtuous quality and a stat.
a thing like appearance is a virtuous quality or a nasty flaw. NOT a damn
stat. Also a thing like sturdiness had got nothing to do with stat,
shields and stones have sturdiness. 

I know i was designing those sucky stats once, but only because everyone
seemed to want them so much. Now im trying to force us to invent better
models, since those really do suck.

We also have to make a difference between stats and skill, stats and
abilities. etc.. something like "war skill" can't be a stat.

I would like to see a system that ressembles more GURPS than ad&d, since
gurps really is a way way better and realistic game system.

In gurps there is only 4 stats : strenght, dexterity, IQ and health.
things like appearance, willpower, intuition, charisma, leadership, etc..
are advantages/disadvantages abilities and skills. 
That kind of system works really really well and is in good balance. 

The next possible solution would be like the system in storytelling games.
they have: strenght, dexterity, stamina, charisma, manipulation,
appearance, preception, intelligence and wits

that is quite well balanced and a nice system also, but again there is
thing like "appearance" that realy should be advantage/disadvatange
instead of a stat.

Then the model in Ars Magica, the art of magic. In that game they have :
intelligence, perception, strenght, stamina, presence, communication,
dexterity and quickness.

a working system also.

but what i really would like, is a system of AMBER the best RPG in the
world. Amber has 4 stats also, and they are :

Psyche - all that is mental, willpower, wits, intelligence, perception, 
         manipulation, intuition etc.. The level of mental power and
         reserves that creature has in use at the max.
	 mental strenght, force of will. Mental agility and skill,
Strenght - all that is brute force, sturdiness, ability to resist damage,
           toughness etc.. The level of physical power and reservers
           that creature has in use at the max
Endurance - all that is fitness, health, recovery rate, stamina, abilility
            to heal, the power supply that runs that creature, 
            the level of recovery and general power supply the creature
            has in use in the end.
warfare - all that is reflexes, quickness, agility, dexterity, 
          cordination and balance etc.. Also part of the combat intuition 
          and how well the creature participates tactics and strategy.
          the creatures 'knack' for tactics and stragety and combat.
	  also military leadership and psychology of war.

In amber the stat system is REALLY good and working one. Things like
appearance are advantages, just as are things like wealth and so on.
The stats all have very diverse range of things that they stand for, none
of them stand for actuall skills - they only prepesent inherited talents
and abilities that the creature is capable of learning, not the actual
skill levels. Those stats describe born talents and the limits of what can
be done and what can be learned. They describe level of potential.

So.. lets kick those old majik stats to the hell house and start using
those 4 stats, maybe with more proper names, if we want to. 

I can tell from vast experience that AMBER stat system is the best iv ever
seen and it works very very very well in practice. 


we really dont neet to create several useless unbalanced stats like
"sturdiness" - we CAN do a better system. Use those 4 stats above for
example. Why the hell we even should brake up something like that
endurance stat above into smaller pieces? it only creates more work and
more code for us. All things related to that can be handled with one
representative stat and randomness.

The use of Psyche, Strenght, Endurance and Reflexes is a way better
solution than our current sucky and ARTIFICIAL stat system.


This archive was generated by hypermail 2b25 : Tue Feb 12 2002 - 00:03:26 EET