Re: radical departure

Subject: Re: radical departure
From: joshua 'hook' corning (
Date: Tue Nov 16 1999 - 05:10:42 EET

Taneli Niko Tikka wrote:

> We dont want to
> create a 'blank' world and end up with green fucking wankers with pink
> panties running around huge pints of lager damnit! 

We all ready have green wankers running around though they probably wear
loin cloths. Have you read Aluna's desc on the Vram islands?

This is precisely the problem with forcing history and culture on the
players. We have no idea what will work with the game and what won't.
Think about it. Just deciding an where a good city should be is
impossible. There is no way of telling where a good place would be until
the game is actually working. Does that hill make a good defensive
position? is it on a trade route? where is a good trade route? Is this
to close to the giants of the mountains? Is it to far away from that
friendly city to the north so if we are attacked will they be able to
help? and it goes on and on and on. And this is just in deciding where
to put a city. A small thing in terms of the whole world. Then if we
change physics like making the world flat differences with our world
will become more prominent and impossible to factor in when designing
because as we are sphere world dwellers we have no experience with
existing on a flat world. this is just an example. More stuff like this
will come up advantages and disadvantages will occure with the client
interface. Players will use this and min max. the benefits. This could
cause adverse effects to the societies we created in ways we can't begin
to imagine. Gods and sages will be lost in the chaos trying to hold
together our artificial societies and kingdoms. Within a month or two of
game play the world we spent two years designing will appear nothing
like we intended it to. Players will act how they think elves should act
or an Orc should act. They WILL call them selves stupid names brake laws
find ways to kill npcs by the thousands until only players exist. The
world will do this on its own. Players will not want to be constantly
told how to act and behave by the gods and will either not play the game
or just do it when its 4 am in Finland. Do you want to be a god or a

:) cause that kind of
> bollocks would be coming from 'blank' development. Your "social
> developement"
> only works in theory AND includes ALL things not just a selected group of
> players.. Yorkaturr has some reall good points down there.
> If the world has no history.. myths, legends, artifacts etc.. nothing has
> no meaning at all.. 

Our world has no meaning but we seem to do OK.

> And as a mental note id like to add that anyone interested how societies
> really do develop, please read culture athropology and sociological book,
> huge pile of em.

Societies really do develop by self organization. Most modern
anthropology and sociological books agree on this. Try reading the
"selfish gene" or edward O Wilson's book "On human nature". What model
do you attribute social origins and development to? 

Joshua 'hook' Corning

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