Re: radical departure

Subject: Re: radical departure
From: Pekka Toppi (
Date: Tue Nov 16 1999 - 09:37:42 EET

> This is precisely the problem with forcing history and culture on the
> players. We have no idea what will work with the game and what won't.
> Think about it. Just deciding an where a good city should be is
> impossible. There is no way of telling where a good place would be until
> the game is actually working. Does that hill make a good defensive
> position? is it on a trade route? where is a good trade route? Is this
> to close to the giants of the mountains? Is it to far away from that
> friendly city to the north so if we are attacked will they be able to
> help? and it goes on and on and on. And this is just in deciding where
> to put a city. A small thing in terms of the whole world. Then if we
> change physics like making the world flat differences with our world
> will become more prominent and impossible to factor in when designing
> because as we are sphere world dwellers we have no experience with
> existing on a flat world. this is just an example. More stuff like this

Why do we have to have any experience of living in a flat world? I think
the lack of experience is an advantage. Now we have the possibility to
create it the way WE want. Majik is a _fantasy_ world and everything is
possible. I personally like the idea of a infinite, flat world like Tommi
described. It would be cool to add completely different environments and
make them accessible through dimesion gates in remote islands or secret
temples. Dimension of eternal pain with hordes of demons would be a dream
come true for most of the suicidal-type adventurers.

> will come up advantages and disadvantages will occure with the client
> interface. Players will use this and min max. the benefits. This could
> cause adverse effects to the societies we created in ways we can't begin
> to imagine. Gods and sages will be lost in the chaos trying to hold
> together our artificial societies and kingdoms. Within a month or two of
> game play the world we spent two years designing will appear nothing
> like we intended it to. Players will act how they think elves should act
> or an Orc should act. They WILL call them selves stupid names brake laws
> find ways to kill npcs by the thousands until only players exist. The
> world will do this on its own. Players will not want to be constantly
> told how to act and behave by the gods and will either not play the game
> or just do it when its 4 am in Finland. Do you want to be a god or a
> policeman.
IMO you have lost the whole idea of this game. Ofcourse I don't know what
kind of players will be playing Majik3D when it's finished, but most of
the mudders I know wouldn't want to play an "empty" game. I have played
RPG's for a long time and I think that the primary fact in the game's
success is it's world. The more detailed, the better. I love games in
the society is functional and
where there are myths and secrets to reveal. So do most of my friends.
is an elf and an orc is an orc and everyone who has played even a little
bit knows what is the difference between them. And besides, who knows how
humans are supposed to act. If somebody wants to be a elf but not play it
elf-style, it's okay. The point is that everyone is an individual.
Ofcourse I have to admit that nice orcs are a rare occasion, but I
somebody want's to play one, it's not a bad idea. Has anyone played Ultima
Online or any other graphic online games? I haven't but it would be nice
to hear if they have had any of the problems Joshua is fearing. 

Pekka Toppi/Mirithil

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