Re: "small" problems with Sinister's proposal

Subject: Re: "small" problems with Sinister's proposal
From: Kaoru Shalamberidze (
Date: Mon Nov 29 1999 - 21:27:24 EET

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Sinister Serpent wrote:

> Kaoru Shalamberidze wrote:
> > The idea Sinister presented is almost 100% copy from Terry K. Amthor's
> > books. Corrent me if im wrong but wasnt this Sinister's idea in a
> > nutshell:
> <cut> 
> Hehe! This is pure coincidence since I have *never* even heard about
> this author Amthor. Too bad if exactly the same idea was written by

Yes i was very sure that this is coincidence, the 2 stories have many
similar points still, its almost a copy, even the undead, demon etc parts,
even they are similar :).. 

> So, it seems that we have to invent something really sick and
> pseudo-artistic if we want it to be unique >;) All other ideas are
> "hollywoodish crap". It is just like in music: nobody invents anything
> new since "everything has been done before" and if someone happens to
> create something "new", it is condemned to be total crap. I have seen
> this happening so fucking many times that I can not even count.

Yep i agree, same thing as music. I already wrote another mail where i
said that we can make something totally alien, otherwise it is very very
alien =) we have to find some for of golden road inbetween. Something that
is unique enough. Just like music i suppose.

> I really
> hope that Mandor can come up with some clever,

Feel free to help :) but try to do it in harmony with previuous designs,
if there are conflicts then explain why this new thing (what ever it is)
is better, and how old things should be changed.

I like majik designer/developers also because we have a few strong
personalities here :) it would be quite dull if we instantly agree on
everything. I think we wouldnt even come up with such a good game then.

> (using the name Ondoval back then) used to copy all his ideas and names
> and even his (avatar's) appearance from somewhere else (mostly Shadow
> World I guess),

Yes as i said years ago that my characters name was from elsewhere,
everyone said "ok". But now the change to mandor is a better choice.
Ondoval name is such a rare one that i cant be quite mistaken i think,
Mandor has more "right" sound in it too. And the picture was scanned from
hmm was it "blue book" 'master atlas' or something. Or was it "grey book"
:) well anyways. I suggested few ideas yes (like the lords of essaence)
from shadow world, but pretty soon after that i choose to discard that
idea.. Then i chooce to go for original and anti-ripped ideas, and that
has been a good aim.

> so I am not very happy with the fact that I get accused
> by a copycat (not sure if this is the right term) that all of my ideas

But you are not accused of anything. Did i ever say that YOU COPIED this..
i only said that it is very much like a copy, because the stories have so
many connection points, its "almost copy" as i said.

> are so "boring/cliché/stupid/Hollywood-like" etc. Just if Mandor was
> trying to retaliate and bring the whole shit on me.

But i am not :) you just seem have a nasty habit of taking some what there
is on you and inventing the rest.
> Well, actually my wizards were not good, neutral rather and you forgot

This is exactly like this in Amthors version aswell :) they are both good
and/or neutral.

> at least two important points. First, these wizards were doing
> experiments with true magic and thus preparing (not knowing it, of
> course) the world for the oncoming disaster. 

In Amthors story this is the primary goal of the "evil" group of mages.
They try to bring world to an end.

> more direct megalomanic plans: to gain as much power as possible, to
> become totally immortal and aboslute leaders of the world and maybe even
> challenge the gods. Of course, their experiments and plans crossed which
> lead to classic situation; "there is no space enough for both of us" or
> something like that. So, basically it was "neutral against evil"
> situation rather than "good vs. evil" which is what you obviously
> thought.

Yes, now this part starts to be different from Amthors story. But still
the connection points are many.

> special, but so what? Does it make it a bad idea simply because someone
> else did got that idea before me?

Yep yep as i said not all things from your idea are unusable, if we alter
the connection points with amthors story enough then it isnt similar
enough.. and then we integrate the 2 versions of our cataclysm stories,
and voila! we have a nice compromise story in our hands that is unique! 

Lets work towards that goal then.

> But you just keep blaming me for copying since it is best you can do.
> Maybe Mandor 'God of accusations' would be better? You could still hold
> your position as an evil god *morbid laugh*.

ha ha im laughing :) you sure seem to have a strong need to invite things
not there and take everything on you. The truth is something entirely
different then. I agree with you on this forexample :
> These horsemen should have been involved MORE in the past of Majik since
> they are very essential part of the evil that reigns in Majik, but since
> nobody, besides me and Yorkaturr, seem to remember them, they are always
> forgotten from the writings.

Lets take all the good things, and everything that isnt too similar with
Amthors story from your version of things and invent more stuff for our
unique (besides the bible) horsemen, and then mess up the final cataclysm
The version me and Yorka worked out with Mirithil wasnt it? had atleast
these points :

1. the cataclysm was a result from mortals destroying themselfs
2. the events HAVE TO include gods, specially new gods, since at the
   moment they smell trouble and see destruction coming they start to
   cover up their asses and they start to fight for their own 
   survivial. Since New gods created humanity and are dependent on
   it, atleast to some degree. 
3. If the new gods are involved, then are the elders aswell, that is
   if we want a cataclysm to happen :) Because if the elders do nothing
   then new gods simply wipe out the wizards trying to destroy things.
4. There was a massive unbalance between new gods, lesser gods, demigods
   etc.. Even few of them died in the wars/chaos/what ever
5. The end result has to include some sort of amnesia effect to deal
   with players not remembering a thing.

Okay then ideas from you, that we seem to agree on :

1. horsemen have to be included, its a good idea.
2. there was more than 1 group of wizards, perhaps more than 2
3. (this is actually part of our idea aswell but):
   the cataclysm should include demons, holy spirits, other monsters
   etc.. As i said in some of my cataclysm post "all the evil creatures in
   the world came out of hiding because gods decided to do nothing" :)

Yep.. lets work on these?


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