Subject: Re: About stat system..
From: Ari Miettinen (emiettin@hytti.uku.fi)
Date: Wed Nov 24 1999 - 11:21:41 EET
>On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Atte Koivula and Mandor(?) wrote: <Snips here and there> >> EXCUSE ME but you were the one who was initially responsible for these >> stats anyway, don't yell at me :) > >Maybe for the most part yes =) but i always would have wanted a better >system - lets make one now! Better system is fine, if we can figure one out. >> Uh? Sturdiness was your idea also, and you were the only person who >> defended that stat back in Majik3... > >I dont remember the actual reanson why i would have done so, but i dont >think i defended the stat itself, i defended the thing because you wanted >to ignore such realistic aspects =) or something.. anyways lets make a >better one now I believe I defended Sturdiness stat. The reason has been made clear already (Elves have great stamina, but cannot withstand much of damage). Imho, we should have some way to make a difference between those two factors. >> 4 stats? Sounds like forced simplicity to me. Remember that the same >> stats must apply to all creatures, be it player races, monsters or >> animals. No exceptions here. > >Yes, we can get it to work for monsters and all with ease. the thing is >that this system has already been tested and proven good. It can work, I know, I played GURPS for years before I moved to Storyteller and others. I did not like it though, mainly because the whole skill system depended on IQ and DEX and it was too easy to be a Munckin in the system. That is the reason why I finally gave up on the system. If we have only four stats of GURPS I believe we will run into that problem: Most skills would utilize only IQ or DEX as affecting stats. >> This approach is confusing. The stats are not supposed describe things >> such as "combat capability", remember that we do not place great >> emphasis on combat and by all means, how well a creature can fight >> cannot be described as one of it's most important abilities. To specify, >> a stat is an inherited, natural ability that describes potential instead >> of a concrete application, and what is warfare if not a concrete >> application, a combination of physical and metal talent that is applied >> to a combat situation. Incoherent, highly incoherent, and completely >> inacceptable to our system. > >Read the whole descs that i wrote and the text after that. Warfare in the >inborn 'knack' for combat and fast action, fast reflexes etc. that ISNT >direct skill, only a good/bad potency to learn combat skills. Warfare isnt >only knack for combat, but dexterity, reaction speed, agility, balance and >those things. the stat name might be misleading, it would be "reflexes" >forexample. This stat it too simple. If all combat affecting things are in one stat (whatever it is called), how are you going to make a difference between a Strong Troll and a Quick Elf? Both would have this one stat at high level. If we had more stats it would be simple: Troll Elf Strength: Strong Fair Quickness: Fair Strong ie: Too few stats leads into problems. Four is simply not enough. I haven't played Amber, but I believe there is only one player species in it and therefore everyone has same potential, so one stat describing all things physical may work in it. We need more. We need enough physical stats to describe different functions of body: * Strength: Potential to lift heavy objects * Stamina: Potential to move your body for long time * Speed: Potential to move your body quickly * Agility: Potential to bend your body * Toughness: Potential/Ability to withstand damage (This stat could also be simulated by separate merit/virtue/advantage.) We need enough mental stats to describe different functions of the mind: * Intelligence: Ability to learn things quickly * Willpower: Ability to resist hostile mind magics * Might: Magical Potential * Perception: Ability to detect things * ? Imho, the stat system should also be balanced. Not just species to species, but physical stats should have as much, and only as much to do with the game as mental stats. Also, there should be as many mental stats as there are physical stats. Unfortunately only four come to my mind at this time. Balance also means that Strength should be as important as any other stat, not more. This is true to all stats. My above suggestion is in my opinion quite balanced, if we use Toughness as a virtue/merit/advantage and forget the 5th mental stat, but it is only a suggestion. Feel free to criticize it, suggest your own systems and so on. I bet there are better systems for stats than this. Also, I did not probably consider all possible points of view... I am only a god, aren't I? ;) -------------------------------------------------------- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. --------------------------------------------------------
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