Re: [plib-devel] Majik3D + texture formats + PPE (long)

Subject: Re: [plib-devel] Majik3D + texture formats + PPE (long)
From: Steve Baker (
Date: Thu Jun 03 1999 - 04:56:16 EEST

Simon Britnell wrote:

> Saw these
> guys on freshmeat or happypenguin or somewhere and, when I looked at
> their page I thought "Oh no! Yet another graphics library", so I
> e-mailed them as attached.

Many thanks.

It doesn't look like any of these people have signed up to
the plib mailing lists (yet) - so I'll CC: them.

(Sorry if this results in duplicate mailing!)

> >        From:
> >              Tommi Leino <>
> >
> >We have looked at it before. I think it is a very good idea to use
> >PLIB, however, the developer responsible for all the current GL
> >code says "We can use some parts of it." and he is not interested
> >of the SSG, maybe because it would take just too much time to
> >recode the current engine ;>.

That's why PLIB is split into 'components'.  Although I like
PLIB to be distributed as one package, all the header files
and 'component' libraries are separated. (Although in some
cases one component relies on the presence of others - I have
tried to avoid that were possible.)

> >We'll consider this again. The SSG doesn't yet have support for PNG
> >images, right?

Right - although that's easily fixed with libpng.

> >Harum (the graphics coder) said, "We'll use it.", as I asked again do
> >we use it or not, so we are going to use it now.

Cool!  Welcome!

> > You can add us to the list of projects using PLIB
> > if you have one....

Actually, I've been to busy to compile one.

> > but still the PNG-support is needed, as soon as possible.

Well, I don't think it's hard to do.

> > When the times comes,
> >we are going to need an 3DS-loader too, if there is no such loader
> >at that point we might contribute it then, if it is ok.

That would be great.  Loaders are certainly a weak spot in PLIB
right now.

> Having mentioned the "small side project to build a modeller", I had
> better get on with it.  I'm about ready top take this discussion to
> plib-devel, but want to have "started down the road" before I start
> getting input as it makes for more progress and less discussion.
> I recall from a previous mail you said that PPE needed adapting to ssg.
> What's in PPE already?  Would it be better to adapt it or start from
> scratch?

Well, PPE (for those who don't know) is like this:

* I couldn't find a free Linux modeller with source code under
  GPL that suited my needs, so I started to write one.

* PPE stands for "Pretty Poly Editor" - it's logo is a parrot.

* I intended to write it on top of PLIB so it would be portable.
  Hence, it'll run full speed even on a Voodoo-1 card. All the
  GUI is in PUI and all the I/O is in GLUT. Graphics are of
  course OpenGL/Mesa.

* The problem was (at the time) that I didn't have SSG written
  and you really *NEED* a solid scene graph package BEFORE you
  write your modeller.

* So, I stopped work on PPE to write SSG.

* Partway through writing SSG, I had a change of heart and
  purchased a shareware modeller called 'AC3D'.  AC3D isn't
  perfect - but it's just about usable. (Just).

* I needed a demo program for SSG - that demo turned into my
  game "Tux_AQFH".

* PPE is now seriously out of date.  I think much of the code,
  and the overall principles are good - but the code itself
  needs considerable rework.

* I can't (easily) release the code as it stands for other
  people to work on because it relies on a matrix/vector
  math library that I wrote at work that is NOT available.
  At the very least, I have to do a bunch of edits to make
  it use the PLIB math library 'SG'.

* Now I'm *SNOWED UNDER* with PLIB stuff - to the extent that
  I can't get back to doing TUX_AQFH - let alone go back to

* What I'd like to do is take a week vacation from work and
  get the backlog of PLIB work done so I can hack PPE and
  release it to Simon (and/or anyone else who wants to work
  on it).

> My present thinking is to build something similar in outlook to ME3D (
> vertiex, surface, fan & strip modelling ) with a better interface for
> plotting points ( maybe click with mouse to select point on grid + two
> keys to move grid in and out of picture ).

You need something better than that - but it's too much to explain
in this email.

Steve Baker         (home)      (work)

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