books, scrolls, paper

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-02 18:25:05

How books and paper could be implemented in the game.

Books can be problematic in the game if you want to custom hand write each page of the book and have players read it, if you did hand write each page you could include artwork and other drawings, but the size of each book would be quite big. What could be done instead is to create a custom font that has some weird medieval looking handwriting, possibly a different font for each race that would be writing. And store the text of the book in a sorta html format allowing you to insert graphics/art via a but the text would be stored in plain text, greatly reducing the size of the book. The text and images would be displayed on a nice 2d graphic of a paper/scroll/book and it would sorta look like a nice hand written book. There can be several different background books/paper/scrolls created and the item file just tells the client which background to use, and which font.

And doing it in this manner can provide players blank paper and books for them to write in, they just type in whatever message and its stored on the paper item. But players shouldn’t be allowed to erase and write over the message, since there writing in ink and it can’t be erased. So the backspace/delete keys should be disabled in typing. They should be provided with some type of tool to black out sections of text or the entire scroll, book, if they want this would be permanent to the item, and render it useless. The method for storing what has been blacked out can be done via a html tag like will black out the last five characters backwards from where the tag was.

It would be nice for players to be able to write info into books and trade the knowledge or have it passed on after there death, or something.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-02 18:28:20
In-Reply-To: 508

thats nice, it dosn't display my fake html tags.. :) I'll not use the greater/less than tags.

[img file] for insterting an image into the book (logicaly only for books that are prewritten.)

[black 5] for blacking out five characters before this tag, used for characters to destroy text or info from scrolls/books.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-02-02 18:34:57
In-Reply-To: 508

This was precisely the idea what I was thinking earlier when we discussed the 'Books of ancient wisdom' thread.

This system works actually. We need only a font of some kind. Maybe someone wants to do it?

From: Zugreb
Date: 2002-02-04 11:43:35
In-Reply-To: 509

well html tag's hav never had tag's that change something that is before it or am I just ignorant

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-02 19:25:45
In-Reply-To: 510

Well a task can be made for creating fonts for majik

and a task for creating 2d graphics of blank book pages and scrolls/paper

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-02-04 14:31:10
In-Reply-To: 511

I think we should make them..

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-04 16:21:07
In-Reply-To: 523

they aren't HTML tags they are html style tags that we parse the item text for looking for specific instructions like insert art here or black out this text.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-04 16:26:22
In-Reply-To: 526

How many would need to be made? I'd think possibly several of the same language/race so that books would have a little more randomly look to them (they won't all have the exact same 2d background and font) just make like three fonts that are slightly different then eachother, one being very neat like an anal person wrote it, one being sloppy and one being a mixure.. and when a book is created or made by us we can specify which font/2d image is in the background, or if its a randomly made book from a player typing the font and 2d image would be random.

From: Zugreb
Date: 2002-02-04 21:02:06
In-Reply-To: 529

I still say that it is unwise to make tag that changes
things that where before it.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-02-04 22:06:02
In-Reply-To: 530

Couple different fonts for each race.. sounds like a big task. But if we have talented and productive folk here around.. why not.

And human writing, for example, may have some same fonts for many races. Eg. all humans in Minartan or something.

Different paper/scroll/book textures we need, but hmm.. does an elvish paper differ from a human one, or orcish?

And when it comes to in-game-written texts etc. maybe each character has a writing skill, which determines the quality of the font. (Whether it's neat or mixure.. etc.)

From: Yendor
Date: 2002-02-09 21:47:32
In-Reply-To: 530

Sorry about the late post, but think about this. We don't need stuff like different font for every type of writing, be is sloppy or written with all the time in the world. We should use only about 1 font per language and these fonts would be open/truetype fonts and as they are line/curve data we can quite easily modify the font on the fly. We could even make that some people wouldn't draw straight lines and they would drop and other neat stuff like that. That would allow us to even partially recognize your player characters handwriting.

I'd like to see that when you see some writing on a not fluent language, all the text would be in a non-english font, for example some earth-slug language, but after looking at it the the english version would slowly fade in over the original text, depending on the reading speed. You could also use the mouse to specify the part which you would like to translate first.

Also the writing would be a little different. I wouldn't like the 'what you press was what you wrote' -style that was suggested earlier. I'd like some kind of editing box where you could enter text and the player character would follow your writing a few lines behind writing them down on the paper on his own writing speed. That way you would be able to correct your text if the typo was just a few words back.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-04 22:12:43
In-Reply-To: 546

why? logicaly a person could type a mistake and want to scribble it out. There is no backspaceing ink on paper.

Books that are made by us that are in the game shouldn't be allowed to be over written, or changed, or added too, and some prolly even moved.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-04 22:14:06
In-Reply-To: 553

ALOT of different fonts is prolly to much work, but just a couple to make books look a tad different then others would prolly be nice.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-02-04 22:22:03
In-Reply-To: 555

True. What would you say, how many do you suggest? Per race etc.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-04 23:59:08
In-Reply-To: 560

well since everything is going to be english i suppose all books should be written in english, and a min of 3 different fonts should be made, if you want to change writing styles for each race then prolly two per race that has a different style would be acceptable.

It would prolly be best to have just three different font styles for the whole game for books/scrolls/paper

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-02-05 00:26:08
In-Reply-To: 565

I would say that at least fully different kind of races should have different fonts. Orcs do not write like elves, as far as I have understood..

From: Nahl_Shadore
Date: 2002-02-05 04:52:07
In-Reply-To: 565

yes, everything to read will be english, but everything written will not.

let me explain: if an orc picks up an elf's book, he can't read it unless he is sufficiently trained in the language

therefore every race (including human) should have at least a set of symols/letters that could be randomly placed on a page if the player can't read the language. if the orc is moderately skilled in elvish, then there is a slight probability of recognizing a word, and having it appear (or partially appear [ie. castle may become c#s&t*e, or if the orc knows enough it may show castle like it's supposed to]) in english

the language skill should also be treed like the weapons skills (ie Languages->Elvish or Languages->Orcish)
that way, the more you learn a language, the easier it will be to learn another (with the exception of your native language) because your parent "Languages" skill increases

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-05 01:48:39
In-Reply-To: 571

But orc english letters wouldn't be to different than elves or humans. It all boils down too how many fonts we want to make, makeing a font isn't easy.. heh

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-05 17:48:00
In-Reply-To: 575

then you need to develop a hierarchy tree for languages, like English is a Germanic language and related to German, but not related to French or Latin, although English is a amalgamation of other languages its syntax and structure and most of the words are Germanic roots. (this needs to be another thread, and a world book entry on languages needs to be written.)

From: Nahl_Shadore
Date: 2002-02-07 02:05:24
In-Reply-To: 584

I don't know if we need a full heirarchy like that, just one like I said, a basic language skill, and subskills for each language

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-07 02:57:14
In-Reply-To: 606

How are players suposted to learn another language?

From: sweatshop
Date: 2002-02-07 03:49:58
In-Reply-To: 611

I would imagine a language-learning system would be similar to how we learn new languages IRL.


A person who is bi- or multi-lingual could hold 'language classes' for a fee (another form of teaching), or, I suppose there could be books to be purchased, which could bring some basic understanding. (This could be easier or harder, depending on your memory skill and other mental skills).

Of course, the only way to learn it perfectly would be to, with basic knowledge either from a teacher or a book, actually go out and use the language. While using the language, a player's language ability could slowly increase. Maybe a percentage system would be appropriate here, with 0% representing that you have heard of, but do not know any of the language, and 100% would mean complete proficiency and a knowledge of every word. (This would be very difficult for a non-native speaker).

From: yorkaturr
Date: 2002-02-07 12:16:34
In-Reply-To: 616

A language skill is just like any other skill, I don't think we need a separate system for language skills to describe proficiency.

From: sweatshop
Date: 2002-02-07 21:37:50
In-Reply-To: 623

Admittedly, and I suppose my previous post was almost identical to the learning system of other skills, except for the books, which would almost be like the 'blueprints' discussed for weaponmaking, yet, they would be in concrete form.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-02-09 22:31:59
In-Reply-To: 649

yea that would be a good idea to write some sorta algo that will modify the handwriteing. :)

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-02-10 00:14:56
In-Reply-To: 649

Agree to that. Sounds real good indeed. And the editing box system would work.. therefore player can correct the small typos, but should there be a button of some kind, and by pressing it the char would start writing? That would clarify things. Just write few lines to box and press the button. Then start writing more while char is still 'copying' previous lines to book.