Nemen Player Race and related thoughts

From: sweatshop
Date: 2002-11-07 03:23:34

In an IRC discussion early thursday morning, a number of issues concerning the Nemen Player Race came up, and the general conclusion was as follows:

Many thousands of years ago, elves populated the islands of Nemen. They built a number of elaborate cities and monuments. After some years, they left, for as yet unknown reasons. The cities and buildings fell into disrepair over thousands of years. A while later, but still thousands of years in the past, the Hilosyphs, a race from Nalor Thaan, enslaved a race of short and burly humans known as the Bronn. In The Cataclysm, about 25 years before the game starts, some of the Bronns were able to escape slavery and settled in Nemen. Out of these ancient elven ruins they began to build a civilization. Players will be of the generation of Bronn that was born in Nemen.

Please comment and discuss.

From: sweatshop
Date: 2002-11-08 03:48:00
In-Reply-To: 2553

A question:

Over the last two days, three main suggestions have come up on how the Bronns got to Nemen. They are as follows:

1.) Planned Escape: A group of slaves took the opportunity arising from the turmoil of the cataclysm to escape north, eventually ending up in Nemen. Hook argued against this, saying that during their 2000 years of enslavement, the Bronns became so used to the idea of slavery and have been so supressed by their Hilosyph masters that they cannot even think of what freedom would be like, and so do not think of trying to escape.

2.) Accidental Marooning/Escape: Some Bronns aboard a ship manage to swim to Nemen shore after ship capsizes. This was applied in my rough draft of the Nemen desc as occuring during a large scale exodus of Hilosyphs during the cataclysm. However, this poses two major problems: (1) major evacuations are very difficult if not impossible with midieval technologies and (2) it is unlikely that the Hilosyphs would evacuate their slaves with them if there was immediate danger.

3.) Divine Intervention: For whatever reason Gods helped in allowing Bronn to escape and settle in Nemen. Suggested reasons for this have been jealousy that the Hilosyphs worship only one minor god or the effects of a general cleansing of any human race the God's felt were too powerful, the Hilosyphs among them, following the events of the cataclysm.

What do You think? Which of these is best? Or is there a fourth, as yet unthought of idea?

From: sweatshop
Date: 2002-12-04 02:41:33
In-Reply-To: 2553

Well, there haven't been any other remarks made on the subject, so I guess I can rewrite Nemen history now. The elves can stay in Nemen (they would likely have made their presence felt on the islands anyway at the height of their power), but the islands could perhaps have had some Hilosyph influence, if not direct occupation. Since it was decided that the player race should be of (at least) average human intelligence, it is likely that, although oppressed for millenia, the Bronns would be able to plot and execute a deliberate escape from slavery under their Hilosyph masters. I intend to write this soon, so, any further input/arguments would be best even sooner.

From: yorkaturr
Date: 2002-11-07 11:59:34
In-Reply-To: 2553

Just to clarify things a bit, it was suggested that the Bronn would be short and burly because they were bred to be that way by their Hilosyph masters. As for the meaning of all of this:

- The issue about the elves who once populated Nemen is important, because Nemen has a number of ruins, because they boost gameplay. If these ruins were of Hilosyph origin, then surely Nemen would've been destroyed in the cataclysm as well, along with the rest of the Hilosyph empire. Further, elves were a highly magical race populated with skilled craftsmen, which directly translates to ancient treasures and secrets to be found within these ruins.

- The issue about the Bronn who left Nalor Thaan during the cataclysm is important, because it is much more convenient game-play wise if the starting population is made up of proper fresh settlers instead of the ragged remnants of a semi-extinct race. This scheme also encourages exploration, as virtually nothing is generally known about the Nemen environment simply because of the short time spent there by these new settlers, which of course means that we no longer need to say that players lost their memory during the cataclysm.

- The issue about the Bronn is important, because as the Bronn are still learning to live on their own, after being enslaved for thousands of years, society is still very simple and skilled craftsmen are hard to find, which encourages the players to develop their skills.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-11-07 16:11:42
In-Reply-To: 2557

Of the Elves.

Let's assume that Moon elves settled in Nemen around year 2500, at times of building of the high realm. They intend to raise an outpost there, an earthly fort, elvish word Neuínel; also know as Nemen.

Some small cities and some worship places were built and a huge rock was laid to split the river Ethnauat, to river Auones and Chauonin, these days known as rivers Ayos and Kadmoin.

But something went wrong. The elven timeline shows where:

Year 2942, The First War of realms. Both kinds bring a charge against each other and a war breaks out.

Moon elves leave their neuínel to defend the high realm and never return.

The chain of islands is settled years after, and strange powers and magnificent ruins can be found still on the main island. People will never find those symbols found on these ruins - on earth. The history of Nemen is written to history of High realm.

Moon elves build magical structures and this might be the reason for the ruins to last this long.

One thing more: I say there's only one place surviving completely from cataclysm, the High realm. Most of the world was destroyed. The moon elves however do not live here and their realm was strongly protected.

What would you say?

From: sweatshop
Date: 2002-11-07 17:44:54
In-Reply-To: 2558

Yes, that all seems to make sense: we have a good reason for the elves leaving and a good 6000 years to let the ruins 'age'. IMO it's brilliant!

And I don't see anything wrong with an intact High Realm, as long as the magical stairway touches 'earth' far enough away from Nemen or wherever else non-elf players will start.

From: yorkaturr
Date: 2002-11-07 18:30:42
In-Reply-To: 2559

Yes, I agree. This fits quite perfectly.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-11-07 20:42:35
In-Reply-To: 2559

The magical stairway should be found somewhere in/near the Sol'Daran forests; (or perhaps a bit east from that point, but in Minartan in any case) near the areas dark elves used to live before migration to east. So, I'd say it's quite far enough.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-11-08 15:15:43
In-Reply-To: 2564

I see there's couple of problems in both first and second alternative. The third may be used if nothing else occur, but, here's my suggestion:

Hilosyphs begin to settle Nemen for some reason, obviously to conquer new lands. They take slaves with them for there's much to build in a new settlement. However, when cataclysm begins to weaken the Hilosyphs present (and in their homelands), someone takes lead among the Bronn people and encourages them to rebel against their masters, for the someone (might later be named as Bronn national hero.. whatever) sees the oppoturnity.

It is likely that at some point Bronns have rebelled, maybe more than once, but the Hilosyphs have always brought under the revolt. This time the conditions are suitable and Bronns, despite their small number, establish a small settlement (one or two towns). As the time passes some other people join their community, even some Bronns escape.

And one thing again: Where did the Hilosyphs (and Bronns) learn to know the former names of the island and its places; so that them would have been named after Elvish names? Some old legends? Elven maps? (Elven signposts found on the island?:)

From: hook
Date: 2002-11-15 06:05:09
In-Reply-To: 2566

And one thing again: Where did the Hilosyphs (and Bronns) learn to know the former names of the island and its places; so that them would have been named after Elvish names? Some old legends? Elven maps? (Elven signposts found on the island?:)

this is fairly simple both the hilosyph and djasimit had extensive skills and knowledge of magic, gods and history and they were very close to nemen...the names were probably rediscovered by scholars of either civilization and stuck.

What bothers me is that these lands were not colenized by the Hilosyph or the Djasimite between the time of the elves leaveing and before harum destroyed the hilosyph empire? I don't even understand why we are bending over backwards to put the elves there in the first place...my understanding is that we need a reason for ruins (for game play). I agree ruins are cool, but why not have them be hilosyph ruins...it is more resonable...there already is a reason for the Hilosyph to be there long ago (~1000 years ago) and a reason for them to leave; the fire storm of harum destroyed their empire...why did this suddenly get all complex?

From: sweatshop
Date: 2002-11-15 09:27:21
In-Reply-To: 2569

I believe the main argument for the elves was that they would leave behind a great number of ancient texts and scriptures for quests and adventure. However, I really wouldn't have anything against putting the Hilosyphs in their place. But, since this seems to be an issue of moderate importance to some, perhaps some other comments might be nice if this is the case. (Or I will assume otherwise.)