Orcs

From: Atratus
Date: 2002-10-04 05:44:59

I took the orcs task. I'm not willing to imitate the orcs from Tolkien, not even in appearance.

Orc, term invented by Tolkien ( I think ) obviously from the latin ORCUM, god of death ( Pluto? ). Later corrupted by French language into OGRE, beast that eats children, used to scare little kids.

The ogre is expected to be an overgrown (3 meters), incredibly strong, stupid, mean and loud humanoid creature.

I need opinions, in any aspect you think it's relevant. My first question: should we use the name ORC as is?

From: gxest
Date: 2002-10-05 11:48:15
In-Reply-To: 2129

Yes, we should definitely use the name Orc. As with elves and dwarves also. There are some things that a fantasy setting must have no matter how worn out and clishéd they are.

My view is that we should not be afraid to imitate the orcs, elves and dwarves from usual fantasy literature, hell if we don't, they wouldn't be orcs anymore.

Furthermore, there are some _really_ initial design scetches of the orc race done by me for some basis, and the patron saint of orcs is Yorka, and i strongly suggest that you ask him for consultation on the issue.

Then there is ofcourse the picture of an orc by Belemar, and i think you should go with the lines of it.

From: yorkaturr
Date: 2002-10-06 18:28:47
In-Reply-To: 2129

I have significant ideas concerning the nature of orcs and their culture, some of which have brewed in my head for years now. In fact, I don't think there is anything about orcs that I am not EXTREEEEEEMELY opinionated about, and asking these kinds of questions just seems to be absurd. The reason why I've not yet written anything concrete down about them is that I want them to be perfect, as I feel a very tight kinship with orcs, and perfection isn't something that can be achieved by correcting mistakes. But, if you've decided to document orcs, it seems that we'll need to take the half-assed path of trial and error, which kind of desecrates something I consider holy...

From: gxest
Date: 2002-10-05 14:25:42
In-Reply-To: 2129

Oh and the picture of an orc is now available in the New Worldbook -> Races -> Orcs.

From: hook
Date: 2002-10-05 12:07:48
In-Reply-To: 2136

the patron "GOD" of orcs is harum...not yorka but he is the one who is designing them. I have no objection to changing their names...even in tolken's books there are like 3-5 names for Orcs and i see no reason why different groups with different languages wouldn't call them by a different name...and i really doubt we would want orcs calling themselves Orcs. Orc is probably the common name used by humans...or at least some humans.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-11-27 12:02:18
In-Reply-To: 2138

i agree to this whole concept for all designs. Most things would have different names in different regions/cultures and even times. An orc 1000 years ago might not be called anything close to what the modern names are.

We should take languages and cultures into concideration when we design. Things like plants that are only found in specific regions would likely only be called one name, but a plant found all over the world would likely have multiple names.

Ideas on this? :P

From: gxest
Date: 2002-10-05 14:25:00
In-Reply-To: 2138

I agree, orcs could and should call themselves something else, but the common name for them among other races WOULD be orc.

From: guest
Date: 2002-10-05 20:33:23
In-Reply-To: 2142

Huhhh, the orc picture looks like a little red X, actually.

Right, I was usually disppointed with the way the literature, SPECIALLY Tolkien, depicted evil and wrong-doing creatures. Let's not forget that Tolkien wrote stories for kids and, let's say, he had to thread lightly on certain aspects of violence and war. My treatment on orcs will be all but childish, I must say, and I will avoid the usual cliché as much as I can.

I made a better picture for the Cymar bird and gave it to sweatshop. He already updated the page. Now it looks more menacing.

From: Atratus
Date: 2002-10-05 20:37:33
In-Reply-To: 2146

Damn, my last message was credited to "guest". This site has definitely some cookie problem.

From: gxest
Date: 2002-10-05 21:09:23
In-Reply-To: 2146

the link to the picture is temporarily from ftp:// so it might not show it with some browsers. ANYWAYS the picture is here: http://www.majik3d.org/~gxest/orc.jpg

From: Atratus
Date: 2002-10-06 00:32:32
In-Reply-To: 2148

Right. I updated the image. I'm planning on even stronger and uglier orcs. I'll make a drawing myself. It will be an additional drawing, no need to toss the old one away, of course.

Some stuff was written too.

From: gxest
Date: 2002-10-06 02:02:24
In-Reply-To: 2149

The worldbook is strictly for decided, approved designs, you should post work-in-progress designs somewhere else until they are completely ready and approved by the task manager.

I also suggest you visit our IRC-channel #majik on ircnet (for example irc.stealth.net) for further info on things, the old designer of orcs might have something to say about general guidelines of design.

On the actual design, I have to say I like it, even in the unfinished state. Not bad at all. Btw, did you just make up that song or have you perhaps used it before on some roleplaying occasion?

From: Atratus
Date: 2002-10-07 16:01:40
In-Reply-To: 2150

I invented the song as I wrote it.

I'll finish the page very soon, it won't kill anybody to be incomplete for a while.

What about the REGION of the Orcs? Is it decided already?

From: Atratus
Date: 2002-10-07 23:23:26
In-Reply-To: 2150

As requested, here's what I wrote so far on Orcs:


Introduction
Loud noises of things being broken, people running and screaming about. Not again.

Orcs, as we call them. Between them, they call themselves "Brutvir", meaning "Strong" in orcish language. Clearly enough, meaning that all other races seem weak to their eyes. Subtle as a wild boar piked with many spears being defenestrated over public market streets, they follow their imprudent ways, for they are mentally limited, as I can only deduce, for the filthy deeds I saw.



Appearance
Very tall, extremely strong, stupid and menacing, they look. They ARE menacing, in fact. Unlike what is commonly believed, they are not exclusive creatures of the night, like the Dark Elves, for instance. They, however, sleep late in the night, waking up almost at noon, lingering with the hangover.

They are not attractive at all. Some have assymetric faces, truly deformed and The ones who look somewhat attractive to human eyes are usually the ugliest in their beauty conceit. Ugliness along with blasphemous personal hygiene make them as appealing as their breweries.



History



Culture


Life
Very little ritualistic, they depart straight to action, rather than thought. Their lives are in their strength, of which they depend on every of their best performed tasks: combat, fighting and strifing. Brawling too. Since their very troubled and tough youth, they fight like part of their culture. Like fun, rather than means of achieving anything. Life is worthless to them, specially when dealing with other races. Endless death between rival clans? Everyday task.

Both male and female orcs have incredible strength, and both make battle their business. When pregnant, or tending very young bornes, a female can live recluded in the camp for some time, fed by the others, being this the only excuse not to fight, not that anyone wants not to fight. Fighting is their life.



Behaviour and Entertainment
Orcs, what they have of strength, they lack in subtlety, tact and wit. Extremely agressive, they are not exactly evil, but mean and wrong-doing. They do not maquinate, nor plot, for they don't have the wits to. If you're about to be attacked, you'll hear the war-cries from afar. In fact, if you ever come near an orc, you're about to be attacked. Civilization is not much in the orcs' language, so they usually do their proper in the bushes and sleep on the floor, usually drunk, late at night. They brew some very strong and crude sorts of ale, like the "Gizzard" ale, repulsive to human tongues.

Their fun is eating, drinking, groaning and the usual violence. Their mating affairs are of some fun too, otherwise they wouldn't reproduce.

Yes, they play with their victims, in a most slow-minded way, before mashing them with clubs. They like specially the young ones, as they seem to scream louder. Babbling about their filthy conquests, they manage to make even songs out of them. Listening to orc bards "singing" is like listening to a bar brawl with dogs involved. They play a two-string lute called "Ruth". Here's a rare song of infantile violence actually written down:

"See the bastard kids,
they ask for death.
See the pitiful warrior wannabes
they WILL ask for death.

Screams of pigs
twisting at tip of sword
Organs falling to ground
Brains flung afar.

High priestess, robed high
ordering foolish troops around
hears last the sound of the blade
slicing her head like soft fruit.

Running into the temple
will serve the fleeing fools nothing.
See the axe of death
do its business."




Religion
Religion is mostly attached to success in war and healing of the wounded. Aside these matters two, orcs don't deal with existential or moral ones. Naturally, Harum is their chief god. Some people would think they are linked to Sinister, also. Not true. Good and evil have no meaning to orcs, so would a god of chaos and evil, and also, their link with darkness is truly a myth.



Language
Orcish, a very simple language, mostly additive, with practically no conjugation. Gender and declination are totally absent. Rude sounding, like a threatening grunting.

Written orcish exists, and it is fairly known among the most clever and leading chieftains and healers. When not dealing with strictly technical affairs, some rude odes to battle deeds are found written in equally rough scrolls of skin.



Land (yet to be decided)



So, you have decided to be an orc. (Role Playing)

-Atratus

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From: Atratus
Date: 2002-10-07 16:06:29
In-Reply-To: 2158

I don't want to make orcs just like the ones in Tolkien.

Otherwise I'll leave the task and work on some other race.

From: origon
Date: 2002-10-06 18:56:56
In-Reply-To: 2158

The only update you have posted is this:

2002-02-20 11:59:13 yorkaturr (50%) Gxest wrote an initial description, all that is needed now is a little detail and some typofixing.

You should present something concrete before cutting the legs of Atratus like this. This is _not_ constructive.

From: yorkaturr
Date: 2002-10-09 13:12:08
In-Reply-To: 2159

It's not intended to be.