Players go offline - what's happening to characters?

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-22 16:21:55

There has been discussion:

I'm not sure about abandoned PCs being the NPCs... it seems like it would cause some problems, like, what signifies that a PC is abandoned? What if someone signed off because they went on vacation for a month, and come back to find out they're someone's slave?

So should there be possibility to 'turn you character off' for some time? This could mean that player is able to set a time for character to be away from majik world.

In practice there has to be some kind of a limit for it.. So what would you say about a system that turns the char off for 5 or more (real life) days. When you select to turn your char off you can't join in the game for five days, but the char will be safe. And when the 5 days have passed the player could join the game normally again and the char would appear there again.

This 5 days (or seven?) prevents player from putting their char offline (and safe) every time they do not play.

Of cource there is still the normal PNPC system with this offline possibility.

So if you know you'll have to be away from world for a longer time eg holiday, it may be wise to turn the char off and then return to world when able to play again.

Anything to say? Comments.

From: Tumababa
Date: 2002-10-15 21:42:45
In-Reply-To: 1319

I just had a thought as I was perusing the posts here.

Has anyone here ever played that old BBS door LORD(Legend of the Red Dragon)? In LORD players had the option of either camping out or staying at the inn when they went offline.

The disadvantage of camping is obvious as anybody could walk up to you and try to kill you. To kill somebody at the inn you would have to bribe the innkeeper for the roomkey(The amount you would have to bribe would increase as your character gained more prestige).

Anyway, a similar system might be what you guys are looking for. Camp in the wilderness(Or in an alleyway) and you risk getting robbed/killed(Especially if you're out in the open). Since Majik is obviously going to be quite a bit deeper than LORD you could give the player the option of staying in a dormitory in their guild for a low fee(Yet again pushing that social aspect a bit). And if a player gets their own house... well... what's safer than your own home? As for players who go offline for days at a time... Adventuring is tiring business! Have you ever hiked up a mountain, killed an army of orcs, stolen their treasure, rescued the maiden, and climbed back down? I imagine it would make you very tired.

Anyway, just a thought I had as I was reading some of the posts here.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-11-27 11:28:46
In-Reply-To: 1319

wouldn't it be possible to cast a magical enchantment/spell that would detach you from the mortal physical world untill you cast a reverse enchantment to bring you back into the physical mortal world. The spell would put you into a void, where its completely dark, and you can't do nothing but think and cast spells. But while in this other world you are completely protected from any harm.

This would allow those two+ year old characters that have had time to master and learn such a powerful spell, but the people who are just starting will have to chance it when they leave the game.

From: Rakel
Date: 2002-03-25 08:29:28
In-Reply-To: 1319

I think it might be good to have some kind of "leave now" -system, cause there are times when one must leave immediately for a short period of time (for example, one hears that friend is in hospital, or significant other calls and wants some quality time :)). This leaving wouldn't be without a punishment to encourage players not to do so, but it would be possible and no harm would come to your character during it. It would last for 2 days max and you would be able to come back to play your character anytime in those two days.

It might be implemented to the game as a prayer for a god to take care of you for a while... After that, of course, you would be indebted to him/her, and might be asked to perform some duties :) This way, players can have "a backup-system" to which lean on if in need, but not without consequences.

From: Zaxim
Date: 2002-03-24 09:18:04
In-Reply-To: 1319

I don't like the idea that PCs can own a NPC tha is a PC. What is to stop people from taking the NPC and abandoning them somewhere?

From: Takomtor
Date: 2002-03-23 17:31:56
In-Reply-To: 1319

I say that we let a business grow around the whole topic. In order to protect the character (player going for one month holiday), one should accomodate his character to a high security safehouse... costing money everyday.

Logging off should leave the character in the game world equipped with minimal AI control.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-23 23:26:58
In-Reply-To: 1326

These high security houses just don't fit to majik environment IMO.. Unless they really are only houses protected by NPC and PC guards.

I still see few problems there..

What if the char has no money? Then let him stay out and propably die? And just because the player is not able to play for couple of weeks..

And in addition to previous post. Maybe we should have a delay of couple of hours when going offline. Therefore the players can't escape from tough situations by leaving the game for a week.

From: Takomtor
Date: 2002-03-24 05:27:00
In-Reply-To: 1329

Make them take a loan. Safe houses would also be player organized, maybe a good job for guilds to generate income. Just one more reason to belong into social fabric of the game.

I think character shouldn't be able to leave the game world.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-24 11:27:47
In-Reply-To: 1333

That is true. Nothing prevents them from cheating. And if the player has no time for searching a safe house? You have played for 2 years and suddenly because you have to leave your computer for two weeks your char dies..

I think the characters should be able to leave the game world simply because we can't assume players to be able to take care of their character all the time. (And in long time the PNPC system may (will) fail somehow) This wouldn't be a problem if we had no permanent death - but we have - and that's only good thing.

As I mentioned earlier, cheating with 'turn off char' is quite impossible if we make it to be like this: the character leaves the game world after 3 hours of PNPC (3 hours later that the player) and you can't return until 7 days have passed.

From: hook
Date: 2002-03-27 02:36:30
In-Reply-To: 1344

A few ways to protect against idle player death would be first a robust camping system...the world is fairly big and easy to hide in... if a player is allowed to click on an auto camping button they could sit in the woods and survive for months with out a problem...also there could be a city camp feature in which they live in a city and are protected by the athorities there as well as protected by any unions and guilds they may be part of. Also they will not be without personal protection...if an idle camping player is attacked they will attack back...we could even code a group camp feature in which if one is attacked all the other camping characters will attack the attacker.

Other features we could add is accesessing players though none fully featured clients...like we could e-mail the server and it would give back your players status...there could also be a cell phone client and palm pilet client and a telnet client etc all for managing your charecter while they are in idle mode...this way if an army is moving into the city your character is idling in you will receave an e-mail or instant message or cell phone text message warning you that your character is in danger.

From: Zaxim
Date: 2002-03-25 08:55:01
In-Reply-To: 1344

No, we shouldn't have players forced to rely on gods. Because some super religous players might object to playing a game where we have to use gods

From: Rakel
Date: 2002-03-25 08:58:12
In-Reply-To: 1344

More ideas...

This could be done "possession-like" by player asking god (or a sage perhaps) to actually take over his/hers body for a while... It could be source of adventures for players and gods too :)

After coming back, one would find his/hers body doing strange stuff or being in some unknown location... God could use the body in furthering his/hers own aims or just for fun, what ever that is :)

From: Rakel
Date: 2002-03-25 09:01:15
In-Reply-To: 1345

Hm. I didn't think about that :(

What if players could ask the sages to do this? They are not gods, but they would be imo powerful enough to do this...

From: Takomtor
Date: 2002-03-29 07:39:36
In-Reply-To: 1345

Some super religious players already live in denial and don't even touch computers. No sense to start dragging matters of spirit into the game. Gods need to have use in order to create a true sense of mythology.

Huh, as I think of it super religious players already say no to our game since we have other gods than
THE one.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-25 19:52:07
In-Reply-To: 1346

I'm not quite sure about that. Relying something that is not game engine feature might fail. It is true that if you have to leave game world quickly it may be hazardous.. well what can you do? I say that it is better that you turn off your char and then, although the 7 days have not passed, you ask some god (in #majik or something) to bring you back to server. Obviously they'll let you return if you had good reason.

From: Zaxim
Date: 2002-03-26 08:58:08
In-Reply-To: 1357

when we start getting thousands of player, the gods will get overwhelmed with excuses and e-mails

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-29 00:28:47
In-Reply-To: 1368

I like the idea of a npc returning to a "safe" zone when it turns intp a pnpc. This safe zone will be a city common area, house (owned by the player). The player can specify other areas to return too but they are not "safe" zones and carry some risk. While in a safe zone the charcter is effectively "safe" from anything, they can't be killed, can't starve or thrist to death, can't be captured and enslaved, etc... They are "safe" from anything except an act of the gods.

If they are some distance from a "safe" zone then they are at risk to bad things during there travel there. But a PNPC has no worry about starveing to death, or drinking or even resting, they just haul ass back to the area they are desginated to return too, being it a "safe" zone or a player desginated area. But if the player decides to tell it to go to some area not a safe zone then they are at risk of being captured and killed there.

Remember this is a game, and not every player will be able to devote an hour of play a day. And if they say go away for vacation for a month there player shouldn't be harmed or dead when they return.

Also I think to avoid a graphic nightmare, while in a "safe" zone pnpcs are not visible to other players. They are just there and when the player logs on again they just appear in the safe zone.

Try not to make the game impossible to play. WoW isn't even going to have food or drink requirements or even haveing to rest. So you won't even get tired. We are going a bit more extreme, with makeing them have to eat and drink (maybe as a way to regain energy lost in travel, not as a life neccesity?) and they have to rest to regain there energy after traveiling a while.


My 10 cents on this., :P

From: Zaxim
Date: 2002-03-27 09:20:52
In-Reply-To: 1371

I like this palm pilot idea and such. The only problem I can see with the server e-mailing you and telling u about an army moving towards you is, who decides that the hideously large group of wicked looking people is an army, and who tells the server to e-mail the people.

From: hook
Date: 2002-03-27 10:40:16
In-Reply-To: 1372

presumably the town cryer by order of the king, mayor, lord or whatnot and only to those people who have marked themselves as idle.....but these are minor problems and need not be hashed out in 100 forum posts this early in the development of the game...if ppl like the ideas I have posted about alerts being e-mailed, cell phone text messages etc and the use of a robust "camping system" then I suggest we end this thread now with the assumption that this is the way to solve the idle character problem...leaving it to be hashed out at a later date when we have more of the game finished.

I don't want to answer ever little problem this system posses..when there are already OBVIOUS solutions to them. And when other more pressing details of the game need more development and more hashing out.

If you have a better idea for how to solve the idle player problem then by all means continue the thread.

hook

From: Zaxim
Date: 2002-03-27 11:26:16
In-Reply-To: 1375

No further comments or questions, I say we use the new nifty close thread button. Please namhas, I wan't to see it in action

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-27 16:07:14
In-Reply-To: 1376

Agreed. We have plenty of time to solve this. And when we have Nemen online we will see and try what could be best solution.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-29 00:33:42
In-Reply-To: 1378

yes end these game machanics topics until we are at that stage of development. We need to concentrate on the general stuff, getting everything defined ad 3D MODELING. not nit picking about skills and this stuff.

From: Zaxim
Date: 2002-03-30 09:09:50
In-Reply-To: 1390

I'm not saying we shouldn't have the gods(Actoually I am) but I personely don't mind having multiple gods in the game as long as I'm not forced to rely on them. Because a PC does not use the gods it shouldn't be a handicap in game, but players who use the gods should be slightly better than other PCs

From: Takomtor
Date: 2002-03-30 12:54:03
In-Reply-To: 1395

Just the same thing as wielding a sword, somebody likes it somebody doesn't. Somebody believes and somebody does not. We should have some use for the Gods, why just to keep them as names?

From: ReSpawner
Date: 2002-10-17 20:45:38
In-Reply-To: 2502

but i really hope it wont be some kind of system where you can only play a special period of time becosue you get to tired... i ahve alot of time and i can spend time on a game but i hate games where there are like special number of turns b4 you have to quit