Concentrating on Nemen

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-10 20:24:14

I read the Nemen desc in wb once more, and just started to wonder.. What we will need for making Nemen a playable start area. What will be the next step.

I mean that it would be nice to see something done. Something that speeds up the project we have agreed to consentrate on: Nemen

We have some flora&fauna texts now, we have a heightmap, do we have somethin more?

What we need now:

- modelling (something common, like f&f and chars)
- textures
- redrawed map (with new land types)
- oh, and a map for game engine (landscape editor/terrain editor, is it functional? (read: is there someone making one;))
- smthng else?

So, if this would be done, we could start to test for example the latitude-altitude-rainfall-system (LARS), foodchain and language systems, NPC AI, weather effects, etc. (which are, IMO, a important part of world desing)

I would really like to see some progress with this 'piece of project'.. :)

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-13 23:52:08
In-Reply-To: 1055

One thing we need also. The 'famous' item creation system. If nemen is going to be a place where we want to test things, items, architecture, houses, castles.. We need system for making them. So I wish a lot of ideas and conversation for the thread Creating items.

From: Rakel
Date: 2002-03-11 14:15:49
In-Reply-To: 1055

I guess we need also the "starting skills" what ever they will be...

At this point it seems like that the skills in worldbook are mostly battle-orientated, so we should have the "normal" skills described :)

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-11 16:32:46
In-Reply-To: 1060

Well that is not actually needed to start the island online. The skill system can be added there. Of cource we need it in time, and we have already started discussion for them. (But is there lack of ideas or what:)

And (some kind of) UI graphics we need also.

Ah, and the race for nemen island, what it was again?

But what we need next is the map. Map for game engine.

AND what we need most, is some folk to do things that makes something happen in Nemen. So, tell me, should we do something? :)

The whole point of making a playable test area is that when we can test things, they evolve much, much faster and become much better. (I can say that by experience)

If we make the Nemen playable first, the other things start to develope at the same time. We see what we need, not only wonder that we might need this and this..

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-11 21:03:48
In-Reply-To: 1060

we don't want a million skills either, if its simplistic and something that an adverage adult in the medieval time period would know, we don't need a specific skill for it. (i.e. cooking). A skill that they can improve is the proper identification of avaiable food sources, and then the METHOD for cooking it, but not something non specific as cooking. Knowing how to cook bread really well won't help you to cook Hujlkua Weed so that it won't kill you. You need to learn how to idenitfy the plant, so when you mouse over it it will say what it is, and give you an option to collect it. And then if you want to eat it you'll need to learn that it is edible and how to cook it, signified by the option to "eat" it from your inventory. If you don't know how to cook it it will be in your inventory, but have no option to "eat it."

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-11 23:04:34
In-Reply-To: 1064

Yeees, we might have a method of some kind.. and a skill for identification.

BUT, I say it once more: We have not only average adults of european medieval. We do have many different cultures: Orcs, human, Tilan, Elves and so on. We do have elves that know many ways to prepare a dough for elven bread, but the humans do not know. They just try to mix all. The elves however know that the main ingredients have to be thicken first (which is and other things have to be boiled in specific way. And that need a skill. And if you cooking skill is not good enough you will ruin your meal by burning it.

we don't want a million skills either, if its simplistic and something that an adverage adult in the medieval time period would know

Every adult can run, every adult can use an axe to cut wood. But how to determine how good or fast they are? Every adult can sneak, but how?

And here we are again :) Arguing the Reality(tm) against.. hmm.. what? against playability? Why don't we want much skills. Well, of cource it is the work we need to do. More skills, more to code..

So then, why not to make the ability to cook to be under the deftness (or whatever the term is) of the character? With the indentification (or food knowledge).. That way we have no actual cooking skill, but some can do food better than others.

Same way we could use agility (owetti:) to determine the running speed or length of jumps.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-12 00:51:09
In-Reply-To: 1066

Keep in mind, this is just a game. :P

Every little nit pickin' thing dosn't need a skill. And really how many food types should we allow to be created? If everything is defined like alot of you are asking, there will be 500000000000000000000000000000000000000 different items and things that need coded. You just have to limit your self to what is practical and what makes the game playable.

Its a game, not a reality simulation. Yes elves can have some speical bread, but elves don't need 5000 different food types, and ocs anothe 3000 and humans another 5000. Why not just settle, bread is bread, and if they have the recipe and ingredietns and the right equipment to make it they can make it.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-12 10:12:30
In-Reply-To: 1069

That is very true, as I said, we can't do that all. We need compromises. The question however is, what we need then?

So, should we start listing all the skills needed in game?

From: Nahl_Shadore
Date: 2002-03-13 02:52:44
In-Reply-To: 1070

at least the basic skills or skill categories

there are some things, as I think was mentioned somewhere else, that we might not realise that we need/want or don't need/want until we actually get a chance to test it, so this list we make should in no way be final, and always be open for discussion, until we've been testing for a while.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-13 21:42:20
In-Reply-To: 1075

I see no point in codeing a "skill" just to see if its useful. Its usefullness should be determined before we even get to the point where we start codeing skills. There is a world book section for skills.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-13 21:52:15
In-Reply-To: 1083

We don't have to code the skill to test it. We can test the world and then say if we need one. After that we can code it to world.

But this all it OT so why not to move this conversation to skill thread? :P

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-13 22:02:52
In-Reply-To: 1085

I agree. Create a new topic

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-14 08:55:33
In-Reply-To: 1095

To create an item, you need a "recipe" or "blueprint" they are basicly the same thing.

It includes directions (not really needed to be known by player), ingridents, and equipment needed. The player sees in a UI list of blueprints what he wants to create, example health potion. They select it and see that it requires Muhina root, Red crystal powder, and Ox blood. They don't have Ox blood indicated by it being Red in the list of needed items. So they decide to make a poison potion. They have all the ingridents and the needed equipment being a pot and fire. They happen to be at a fire and have there pot with them. They simply click on the recipe and there player starts creating the potion. The proper consumables are used and in there inv is left the potion (provideing they have a jar to put it in, prolly should be a requirement.)

To build a sword, they look through there blueprint list and come across a broad sword. They select it and see that they have the required amount of steel and the right equipment and click create. There player starts createing the sword, and when there done they have a sword in there invintory, or weilded, or put somewhere.

To create a house, the player would have to "survey" a building location. (survey skill?) and then they have to start collecting the materials and bring them to the building site. Possibly hireing some NPCs to help build, because a single player working on it would take a very very long time to complete an entire house. Other players can band together and share there collective skills to build eachothers houses, like the the pioneers did.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-14 09:18:51
In-Reply-To: 1102

That is true. Just like in new create item system suggestion.

and when there done they have a sword in there invintory, or weilded, or put somewhere.

It's there, on the anvil..

From: Zaxim
Date: 2002-03-18 09:17:16
In-Reply-To: 1102

Yes I like this idea for the houses.

And another thing, there MUST be a way to buy things in bulk. I used to work for another graphicle RPG game, you need about 30 bars of iron to build a sword or something, and you had to click on the iron and then BUY 30 times. So there should be a way to select an itm then type in the ammount you want to buy.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-18 09:39:58
In-Reply-To: 1220

iron most likely will come in a couple different qualities, best quality will be steal, least quality will be like pot iron. and most likely will be sold/traded by weight, or we could create a standard "bar" and make molds available. but i think welling it by weight will be best. :P

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-18 16:32:10
In-Reply-To: 1221

Weight I would say.

Hmm, that creates another dimension to item creation, the quality of raw-materials.. This is getting complicated ;)

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-19 05:34:10
In-Reply-To: 1236

exactly :)

steel is very hard to create with any consistancy. And only the most skilled metalurists could make it so it wouldn't break or bend.

So raw materials will likely come in several differnt qualities.

From: Archantes
Date: 2002-03-19 15:46:53
In-Reply-To: 1248

Or should we make it be (to simplify things a bit) like this: (Notice the 3 stage system in item grouping)

For example

Raw materials:
Wood, Wool, Boulder, Iron Ore, Gem, Pelt

could be all same quality, there is no actual need to separate how good wool or wood (normal pine wood.. of cource there is difference if it is mahogany..) or iron ore there is, but

Supplies:
Plank, Cloth, Stone, Iron ingot, Jewel, Leather

would have different qualities depending on how good makers there has been and

Items:
Table, Robe, Owen, Sword, Pendant, Apron

of cource would have qualities too. The final quality depends on the quality of supplies, the quality of a blueprint, the quality of tools and the skill of a player.

Conclusion: It is extremely difficult to create the best sword imaginable for there has to be best things in every field of item creation, which is good thing I say.

From: raeky
Date: 2002-03-20 00:49:41
In-Reply-To: 1260

sounds good, ores and raw materials don't have different degrees of quality. only things created from them.